Eclipses in a cabin in the woods
TRANSCRIPT
Moiya McTier 0:27
Hello, everyone. Welcome to Pale Blue Pod, the weekly astronomy podcast for people who are overwhelmed by the universe but want to be its friend.
Corinne Caputo 0:36
I'm Corinne Caputo. I'm a comedian and writer, and space enthusiast.
Moiya McTier 0:42
Yeah, you are. And I am Dr. Moiya McTier and astrophysicist and folklorist and want to be space enthusiast. It's hard when I know so much about the universe.
Corinne Caputo 0:51
You just know too much. And especially when you're graded and tested on it, I'm sure it takes the fun out.
Moiya McTier 0:57
Yes, I have been. I've been graded and tested out of my love for astronomy. But Corinne, where are we recording this episode? Today?
Corinne Caputo 1:05
We're gonna cabin in the woods, but it's not creepy. I want to emphasize that it's not a creepy cabin. It's one of those cabins that's like, Scandinavian interior a little and there's flannel, and it's fun. And you can walk to town if you needed to, which is why it's not scary. And it's cold. But the fires roaring, and their cider rolling on the stove.
Moiya McTier 1:26
Oh my god, I'm so excited for this cider already smells delicious, but I can't wait to taste. And you're right. It's good. The thing that makes a log cabin in the woods, is you didn't specify log. I'm just adding the thing that makes a cabin in the woods. Scary is the isolation. So if you can walk to town, if you can walk into your conveniences, then it's not a
Corinne Caputo 1:46
scary illusion. Yeah, it's the illusion of being cozy and isolated. But the knowledge of knowing there's someone nearby.
Moiya McTier 1:53
I always said growing up. I grew up in a log cabin in the woods and it was scary because I couldn't walk to town. I always grew up saying that I never wanted to live in another place where no one could hear me scream.
Corinne Caputo 2:07
Oh my god. That is okay. I have to I was thinking this the other day someone who grows up in a skate what I deem a scary place like that. A spooky place, I guess. Are you taught to fear it by like culture and media or is that? Oh, was it? Yeah, currently scary? Yeah. Like you wouldn't have been scared if no one had told
Moiya McTier 2:27
you. Well, no, I think I think you would be scared because the reason the media teaches you that those places are scary is that is because they're scary. Yeah. So if you live in the middle of the woods, and you go out at night, you're gonna hear the weird noises you're gonna hear the cracking branches and you're gonna smell the weird smells. If you happen to grow up in Greene County, Pennsylvania and the woods of Oak Forest, the children around you will tell you nightmare stories about the legendary nipple biter.
Corinne Caputo 2:52
Oh my god. That's that's scary. That's like, Okay, that sounds like barbarian way which you should see.
Moiya McTier 2:59
I never ran into the nipple biter.
Corinne Caputo 3:01
Okay. I am not I am desperate to know about that. Is it a person who comes into your house?
Moiya McTier 3:06
No. Well, the so again, never ran into Mr. The story that I heard the reason that other kids told me not to go into the woods at night was that there was this like, Man roaming around in the woods, who if you felt
Corinne Caputo 3:22
he would get close enough to bite your nipple and not do anything else, I
Moiya McTier 3:26
guess, is strangest?
Corinne Caputo 3:28
I mean, at that point, it's kind of like, okay, we both know what we have to do. Let's go. Like
Moiya McTier 3:35
I don't know if the nipple biting was a precursor to more nefarious deeds. But either way, that alone is scary enough.
Corinne Caputo 3:41
Yeah, that is so specific and not violent enough. That it's not like something I've heard before, if that makes sense. It's just so specific and strange. Yeah, that it's in
Moiya McTier 3:54
that line. Kenny valley of scary. Yeah,
Corinne Caputo 3:55
it's almost the worst case scenario.
Moiya McTier 4:01
Oh, dear listeners.
Corinne Caputo 4:03
Speaking of Night.
Moiya McTier 4:05
Night. I guarantee this episode is not all about the nipple biter. Instead, we are here to have this cozy conversation in our cabin in the woods. All about eclipses. Yes.
Corinne Caputo 4:18
I remember the last eclipse that we had, or the one that was like kind of over New York City. Yeah,
Moiya McTier 4:24
I was going to ask Have you ever seen an eclipse I went
Corinne Caputo 4:28
it was like the partial like we were in the partial view, I guess because it didn't get fully dark at all. And the way we were able to notice it was we had like we were on a roof in some Greenpoint, like coworking building and I had like a spaghetti strainer like colander and this the shadow of it like you could tell that all the circles typically would have been like a circle shadow, or like half moon.
Moiya McTier 4:56
I love that trick because you are not supposed to look directly at a solar eclipse. Like we're just gonna say that right now, at the top of the episode do not look not at a solar eclipse
Corinne Caputo 5:08
unless you're President Trump. Who did? Who did, and I
Moiya McTier 5:13
wish he had more time. Yeah, just a couple more seconds. I wish he had a staring contest with that thing. But that strainer trick, though, is really cool, because it lets you see at least the shape of the eclipse without looking right at it. It's good to have on hand if you do not have official eclipse glasses that make it safe to look at the sun during an eclipse. So yeah, keep keep your strainers in mind, those common household objects can be used for science. Yeah,
Corinne Caputo 5:43
it was it was very funny to walk around with that, because it's not an item I've taken outside the home before. Like, I certainly didn't have like a purse big enough for it.
Moiya McTier 5:54
Right? So you're just walking around with this big old strainer and you're getting strainer. It's great. But other people I'm sure we're also walking around with weird that
Corinne Caputo 6:02
they must have been. Yeah. And also, who cares? And in New York, who cares?
Moiya McTier 6:06
We live on this tiny little rock like why? Why be ashamed of anything?
Corinne Caputo 6:10
Why be self conscious?
Moiya McTier 6:13
I have seen two eclipses. One of them was just last week, it was the most recent total lunar eclipse. So in this episode, we're talking about both solar and lunar eclipses. And it was a really nice moment, because it was like 5:30am, I set my alarm to get up in time to go up on my roof. And it's so cold. And it's so early. And of course, my building decided to have all the fairy lights on I was really mad. But as I was standing there watching the Eclipse, two of my neighbors who live in my building, who I've never met, they came up to also watch the Eclipse. And then they like just started asking questions, not to me specifically, just like yeah, I wonder how that works, blah, blah, blah. And then I answered them. And then they were like, Oh, well, how do you know?
Corinne Caputo 6:59
Yeah, and then you get to me like, oh, well, I'm a bit of an expert.
Moiya McTier 7:03
Oh, I'm like literally a doctor of the universe. And then both of those people bought my book before the Eclipse was over. I know they were so nice. I hope I see them again, the next total solar eclipse on the roof, because I will not be living in this building. For the next total lunar eclipse, you'll hear why by the end of the episode. So that is my lunar eclipse story. My Solar Eclipse story is even more fun, although you will see similar themes. So in 2017, there was a total solar eclipse whose path of totality was going across the US going from the northwest down to the south east passing through Nashville, Tennessee, and I was a young grad students still very much in love with space and I was like, I'm gonna go see this eclipse. So I did I booked a ticket. I went down to Nashville to see the Eclipse got there a day early and decided to go out have a night on the town before the total solar eclipse. So I did. I went to this little like Honky Tonk bar. Yeah. In downtown Nashville with like, literal hay on the floor where people were square dancing. It was amazing.
Corinne Caputo 8:16
I've been to this bar. I went to Nashville once and we also went to like some Honky Tonk bar, and I had a perfectly medium time, but it seems like you went a lot more fun.
Moiya McTier 8:27
Oh, my God, Corinne, this, I think about this day, so often. I love this. So I walk into this bar. There's nowhere to sit. But there is standing room at this tall table surrounded by old white dudes. I go up, because it's the only place where there is literal space for my body. And we start talking and they're like, Oh, are you in Nashville for the Eclipse? And I'm like, Yeah, and actually, I'm an astrophysicist.
Corinne Caputo 8:57
At this time, you just dropped it.
Moiya McTier 9:00
I wasn't as coy back then. Yeah. So I tell these these men that are in like their 40s and 50s that I'm an astrophysicist. They immediately start like hounding me with questions and plying me with moonshine. So over the course of the night, my explanations get more and more ridiculous and very slurred. It was my first time having moonshine. And I ended the night dancing with like, three of those men at the same time, just all having a great time on the dance floor drunk on moonshine and in love with space.
Corinne Caputo 9:32
I love this. Wait, were they in town for the Eclipse? No, they live there. They live there. I'm always curious what it's like to go to a bar like that when you are a local and not a tourist. Yeah, it feels like they had it works out for them. They get they get to meet experts and ask them all their questions. Yeah.
Moiya McTier 9:50
I mean, you must have had something some experience like that living in New York.
Corinne Caputo 9:56
I mean, I did go to you know the Times Square Red Lobster once That's got to be the same thing. Must
Moiya McTier 10:02
be because you know, everyone there is.
Corinne Caputo 10:05
There's no way we're all local.
Moiya McTier 10:09
Oh, yeah. So that's my Eclipse story. I think about those those old white men. I only remember that one of them and I don't know, which was named Mark. So thanks, Mark and friends that
Corinne Caputo 10:22
classic white man's name. Yeah.
Moiya McTier 10:25
There's like a, like a 95% chance that one of them was named Mark.
Corinne Caputo 10:28
That yeah, the odds are in your favor, though. They were named Mark. Actually,
Moiya McTier 10:33
they definitely don't remember my name. No, they could not get up. Yeah, so that's my Eclipse story. But now I feel like we should probably tell the listeners like how eclipses work.
Corinne Caputo 10:46
Yeah. Tell me the deal about this eclipse.
Moiya McTier 10:48
Actually, currently, I'm wondering, how do you think eclipses work?
Corinne Caputo 10:52
Okay, so I know that there's two kinds I know there's solar eclipses and lunar eclipses were like, That's maybe there's more than that. But that's what's famous to me.
Moiya McTier 11:00
That's the broad categories. Solar Eclipse
Corinne Caputo 11:03
is when the the you cannot see the sun. Like, I know that there is this path of totality, where if you're looking up, what you should not look directly at the sun would be it would feel like suddenly night and it would be dark, and then it would go back to normal. Yeah. And I don't know if that is because the Earth's shadow is past it. Like I'm not quite sure why or if the Earth is like or if the moon is going in front of it. But something is, is blocking view. And then lunar eclipse is the other kind.
Moiya McTier 11:37
Yeah, there's, there's a shadow somewhere that blocks sunlight. And then the lunar eclipse is the other time. That's a great explanation. Yeah. That's it. That's it. That's all you need to know episode over. I can clear I can clear things up just a little bit. So you are totally right, that it happens when one body casts a shadow on the other. That's how both eclipses work. But it is a different body casting the shadow each time. So just to set some baseline context here. I'm not trying to assume any knowledge, the Earth orbits the Sun. Yes, we are on a planet called Earth. Earth orbits a star that we call the sun. It takes approximately 365 days for the Earth to go round the sun once the moon orbits the Earth. And it takes the moon roughly 28 days to go around the Earth once. But these three bodies aren't lined up in a perfect flat plane, the moon's orbit around the Earth is tilted just a little bit by about five degrees off of the plane made by the Earth Sun connection. This is why we don't see lunar eclipses every month, because if it was a perfectly flat flame. Oh, sure I said that wrong. If it was a perfectly flat plane, then the moon would always be passing in and out of the Earth's shadow. That makes sense, of course. So solar eclipses happen when the moon is directly between the Sun and the Earth. And when that happens, the moon ends up casting two shadows on the earth. One is very small and very dark right in the center. And that's called the umbra. That's where the path of totality occurs during a total solar eclipse. And then the other shadow cast by the Moon is much larger and not as dark. And that's called the penumbra, like the almost shadow if you are interested in ancient Greek.
Corinne Caputo 13:39
I did take Latin in high school and promptly failed. Needs to Know Latin. I'm not here for it. I had a blast with my friends during that class. And that's what's important. Yes,
Moiya McTier 13:50
education is less important than social connections. It's
Corinne Caputo 13:54
socialization. Exactly, exactly. Community.
Moiya McTier 13:59
And you are totally right that the lunar eclipse is just the other one. So where the solar eclipse is, in the order Sun Moon Earth. A lunar eclipse has the order Sun earth moon, so the moon is actually passing into the Earth's shadow from the sun. Oh, okay. So I have a question for you. This is very low pressure pop quiz. I'm nervous. So I try to remember that orientation that a solar eclipse is where it goes Sun Moon Earth, and then a lunar eclipse is where it goes Sun earth moon. Got that. Okay, yeah. So, do solar eclipses happen during a new moon or a full moon? A solar
Corinne Caputo 14:44
eclipse? Okay, so I know what a New Moon is because of Twilight.
Moiya McTier 14:49
I thought that they gave very scientific explanation
Corinne Caputo 14:52
is called New Moon because Bell is in a period of depression because ever that's gone. I sang and she becomes close with. I know his name is not Jeffrey, Jacob, Jacob.
Moiya McTier 15:08
We know with the wearable Jeffery
Corinne Caputo 15:10
and I am pretty sure that she named Stephenie Meyer named this book New Moon because it was dark. Because you when it's like a dark period, you're correct. Which makes me even more confused about which, which
Moiya McTier 15:29
5050 shot here. Okay,
Corinne Caputo 15:31
what is the new moon? Yes,
Moiya McTier 15:32
yay. So new moons happen when the moon is between the Sun and the Earth. And it's the new moon and it looks dark, because the side of the moon that's reflecting all of the sun's light is facing away from us when it's between us and the sun. Whereas the full moon is when the moon is on the other side. So it goes Sun earth, moon, and then we can actually see the full face of the moon that's being illuminated by the sun. So a total lunar eclipse always happens during a full moon. And a total solar eclipse always happens during a new moon. I
Corinne Caputo 16:10
love that. And I love that I knew that because of Stephenie Meyer.
Moiya McTier 16:15
Yeah, yeah, that was a real logical progression that you went through to get to that answer. So, eclipses are cool, because they are a consequence of what I like to call the magic of angular size. Oh, I'm imagining that after I say that, there should be little like sparkle notes. Little toys. Exactly. Magic of angular size. Okay, so we we know, actually, no, I'm not, I'm not assuming any prior knowledge, the sun is much larger than the moon,
Corinne Caputo 16:52
I know that start there. I do know that awesome.
Moiya McTier 16:55
Great start. It's roughly 400 times larger than the moon. But the moon is also much closer to Earth than the Sun is roughly 400 times closer to us than the Sun is. So since closer objects appear bigger, the sun and the moon actually appear to have the same size on the sky, we astronomers call this angular size. And if you were to measure it, both of them have a diameter of about half of one degree. If you were to hold your thumb out at arm's length, like give someone a thumbs up at arm's length, the moon should take up with the moon and the sun should take up about half the size of your thumbnail. I'm
Corinne Caputo 17:40
doing it. I can't prove it, but it is covering my light. So
Moiya McTier 17:44
that's, that's a mini moon or a mini sun. They're the same size,
Corinne Caputo 17:48
every light bulb in this apartment is just as big as the sun.
Moiya McTier 17:54
But they are however, not perfectly the same size. From our perspective, the moon's orbit isn't a perfect circle. It's slightly elliptical, which means sometimes the moon is closer to us. And sometimes the moon is farther away. And when it is farther away, it looks smaller. So if you have a total solar eclipse, while the moon is at its far point, or apogee, as we call it, then it's not going to be the same angular size as the sun. And instead, it's going to look just a little bit smaller. And you'll see a ring of sunlight around the moon. Yeah, that is called an annular eclipse. It's a special type of solar eclipse, or a ring of fire. Eclipse.
Corinne Caputo 18:35
I feel like that's the iconic image of an eclipse of a solar eclipse is like the kind of black center with light around. Well,
Moiya McTier 18:44
it is slightly different because there's always going to be light around. That's the corona of the sun. Oh, yes, this word I know. But sometimes the the moon looks small enough that you can see like the actual edges of the sun.
Corinne Caputo 18:58
I'm looking at an image now that's comparing an annular and a total and they are very different. Oh, what's the difference? How would you describe so an annular feels more like? There's just a thicker and like, shaped like well shaped ring around it? Where the Total Eclipse has more of an aura around in. Yeah, and then a partial eclipse looks more like a half moon where it's like the sun has has like a bite taken out of it. Yes.
Moiya McTier 19:25
Nice. I will talk a bit more about the corona of the Sun later. But yeah, that that fluffy bit that you're seeing around the total eclipse that's the sun's corona. And it's really hard to see that it's like almost impossible to see that if the light of the actual sun isn't blocked. So during an annular eclipse or a ring of fire Eclipse, all of the sun's light isn't blocked. So you see that ring of the outer edge of the sun but you don't see the corona we'll put these pictures on our Patreon Yeah, yes, we will. You can go there. Go there. See that? Okay, now that I've told you about the magic of angular size. I have to tell you, like the shocking, sad consequence of the magic of angular size. Oh, so very cool, fun astronomy fact that I often share with people if they're like, who to fool your fun space back. I say, Oh, hey, did you know that the moon is moving away from the Earth? It moves away by about an inch and a half every single year? Ah, that's
Corinne Caputo 20:30
true. That's big. That's a lot,
Moiya McTier 20:33
I think, an inch and a half every year.
Corinne Caputo 20:35
I mean, not really, my hair grows faster than that. But
Moiya McTier 20:40
right, yeah, it's all relative.
Corinne Caputo 20:41
It's just I think I'm so used to space things like being like more imaginative of like, this is a scale I cannot experience but it is a scale I can imagine. So to be able to imagine an inch just like I don't know how to place it. Well,
Moiya McTier 20:54
you if you if you take roughly one finger knuckle the moon is moving away from us by a finger knuckle every year.
Corinne Caputo 21:02
I'm gonna miss it. Okay, this is
Moiya McTier 21:05
this is the sad part because as the moon moves away, its angular size is getting on average, smaller. Which means eventually there will come a time when the moon is so far away, even at its closest point to us, which is called perigee. So now I've given you both of the words a big
Corinne Caputo 21:24
vocab test, even at perigee,
Moiya McTier 21:27
as the moon moves away from us, it will be too small to cover up the sun. So in about 600 million years. Wow, Earth will experience its last total solar eclipse.
Corinne Caputo 21:40
Oh my god. Will they even know? I
Moiya McTier 21:44
hope so. Oh, my God, I really hope so.
Corinne Caputo 21:47
I hope they know what's the last one will we be around? I won't be around you
Moiya McTier 21:51
and I will be I'm out. We'll be long gone. If humans are around, then I would hope they know. Because if you miss if humans are still around, I think that means that we would have like overcome we're pretty advanced. Yeah, we're pretty advanced by that point. And hopefully we don't lose the ability to predict and recognize eclipses because we've been doing that for 1000s of years I mean ancient Babylonians 5000 years ago we're predicting the Eclipse Wow. But yeah, 600 million years that's all we have left and eclipses the total solar eclipses used to be more common because the moon was closer to us and looked even bigger and so there were more opportunities for the moon to pass into the front in front of the sun. Yeah,
Corinne Caputo 22:35
wow, that's cool. I didn't even think about that. See the fun consequences
Moiya McTier 22:40
of the magic of editing I'm gonna keep saying that yeah, so that's that's how they work. And we know that they used to be more common in the past but the question is How common are eclipses now? In
Corinne Caputo 22:56
my head? They are not okay and torn because they seem to be happening all the time. Like if I was travel if I was willing to travel to see but they're not happening near me often. Yes,
Moiya McTier 23:08
exactly. The the solar eclipses they're kind of elitist. They're only a few people at a time. Whereas the the lunar eclipses there a lot more. What is he egalitarian? The word
Corinne Caputo 23:21
Socratic?
Moiya McTier 23:23
Yeah, like the moon. The lunar eclipses would let people unionize, the solar eclipses would not this tracks with how
Corinne Caputo 23:32
I imagined the personalities of the center of the moon, the moon is for the people. The moon is for the people and the sun is needs to learn a lesson. It's time to eat the sun. Oh,
Moiya McTier 23:47
man, I am so going to cross stitch that on a pillow you have no idea.
Corinne Caputo 23:53
I will tufted into a rug when as soon as I get yarn. That's
Moiya McTier 23:56
my that's my new like protest sign. You're pretty right? Yeah, they aren't that common. There are a few partial solar eclipses every year that are visible from various parts of the planet. But on average, a total solar eclipse will happen roughly every 18 months. So every year and a half. The Path of Totality for a solar eclipse is very narrow. Like I said, they're the elitists. It's it can be 1000s of miles long, you know as the Earth rotates, and the sun appears to like, travel across the sky, right? But the width is very small. Only about 100 miles wide. Oh, wow. Yeah. So like, there's a there's a total solar eclipse happening in 2024 that will pass through the United States. The Path of Totality I know is going to pass over Buffalo, New York. But here in Manhattan, New York. I am too far away from the path of totality to see it Oh, yeah, it's that small. And because it's so small, the path of totality is where that smaller Moon Shadow hits the Umbra that I mentioned before, because that's so small totality will only last a few minutes for a solar eclipse,
Corinne Caputo 25:16
like, Are there parts where it would last longer?
Moiya McTier 25:20
I think what's not gonna last longer than like 10 minutes, because because the moon is so much closer to us, it appears to be moving faster. You know, like when you're on a train, and you're looking out the window, and the close stuff moves by really, really fast in the far stuff, you can see it for a while. Yeah, the moon is so much closer to us that it's going to pass across the sun very quickly. So totality is short got it. But lunar eclipses, on the other hand, last a lot longer. A total lunar eclipse can last hours, because the moon moving through the Earth's shadow. And because the moon is very close to us, it takes a long time for it to pass through Earth's shadow. There should be a couple partial lunar eclipses every year. But actually, the total lunar eclipses are even rarer than the total solar eclipses. They happen on average, every two and a half years. Oh, wow. Yeah, I
Corinne Caputo 26:14
wouldn't have guessed that.
Moiya McTier 26:15
I know Me neither. But here's here's the kicker. 2022 has been a weird year, we've had two total lunar eclipses. There's the one that I saw, talking to my neighbors and charming the hell out of them. This path selling books. Yeah, got anywhere you got selling those books. And we had one in May of 2022. That I did not see I was not interested. Was that
Corinne Caputo 26:44
unexpected? Or does that like it's sometimes it lines up where we get to? And sometimes it's just the end of days? I mean, are you trying to tell me this is the end? Look,
Moiya McTier 26:55
if we were humans, like 3000 years ago, we had so we literally thought, yeah, so many cultures around the world thought that eclipses were bad omens that it was a sign that their gods were angry with them? Well, yeah, they're
Corinne Caputo 27:07
freaky, terrifying. Imagine going about your day in the ancient times. There's nothing to do because there's no cell phones.
Moiya McTier 27:16
Right? That's the only thing you can do.
Corinne Caputo 27:19
So they're just kicking a ball around. And then it goes dark. It goes completely dark, I would start crying. I'm
Moiya McTier 27:27
sure many people did. Yeah, people really read astronomical events as omens and messages from their deities. I read a story about one solar eclipse from 1000s of years ago, like a couple 1000 years ago. And it was said that this eclipse stopped a war. Because as the battle was going on in the day, the the Eclipse happened and so all of a sudden day turned into night. And because they thought that an eclipse was their gods saying like, Hey, I'm mad at you. They saw that and they're like, oh, they don't want us to fight we're going to stop this war.
Corinne Caputo 28:02
I love that. If only we could fake that and do it again and again.
Moiya McTier 28:07
Oh my god, that that would be easier and aware. So I'm not going to cover like the the myths of eclipses because I'm trying to keep this is Science Podcast. But if you do want to know more about the myths of eclipses, especially solar eclipses, I did an episode of fate and fabled for PBS all about solar mythology around the world where I talk about the ways that different cultures viewed eclipses. So go check that out on YouTube. The next eclipses. I know people are curious about it. When will the next eclipses be? So the next total lunar eclipse we had to this year? The next one won't be until March of 2025.
Corinne Caputo 28:48
Okay. 2025 I wonder what I'll be doing then. Honestly, same. I'm like, there's gonna be a presidential election before that. Right? Yeah,
Moiya McTier 28:58
yeah. So leading up to that presidential election in April of 2023. We will have a total solar eclipse but totality will mostly pass over the ocean, just off of Australia, which is like the shitty thing. Eclipse is right? Like you. If it's happening in the ocean, you can't see it. This is
Corinne Caputo 29:19
again, the sun is not thinking about the people at all. It's
Moiya McTier 29:23
really not Yeah, whereas the the lunar eclipse, it lasts hours and basically half of the planet can see it at a time.
Corinne Caputo 29:31
Yeah, yeah, the moon is for the people or the people.
Moiya McTier 29:36
The sun so that's, that's the next total solar eclipse but the next like useful total solar eclipse is the year after that in April of 2024. And lucky for me, that path of totality will pass through the US going from like Texas, up to the northeast, and it will pass through New York State and I am absolute We're going to go and see that total eclipse. Maybe I'll have another fun fun time with ya strange old white men.
Corinne Caputo 30:06
You have to go and go to the strangest bar you can find and have an amazing conversation.
Moiya McTier 30:13
Yes, do some drunk dosi doing I will Yeah
Corinne Caputo 30:24
Hi, it's Corinne. I wanted to give a quick shout out to our amazing patrons who are keeping this podcast going. You light up our world, our universe even so thank you to our sunlike star Siân Llewellyn. Thank you to our red dwarf stars Sean Reynolds, Anne Musica, Scott Sheldon, Phil see and a lot of our Tova and thank you to our pre-main sequence stars Sam Jackson, Mike Caputo, Danny, David Grover, and Andy Cracksberger. And you too can support us hear your name on this podcast, and make it to our patron star chart by supporting us on Patreon. You can find the star chart, Patreon info, and more at our website palebluepod[dot]com.
Moiya McTier 31:04
Hello, it's me Dr. Moiya, the astrophysicist. You know that Pale Blue Pod is my way of sharing my knowledge and love of space with you. But I'm also a folklorist and my other podcast Exolore, lets me share my combined space and folklore expertise. There are more than 60 episodes for you to listen to. I've been hosting it for more than two years, and all of them explore different facets of fictional world building. If you like sci-fi, or fantasy, or tabletop role playing games, you'd probably like Exolore. Lately, each episode has either been a breakdown slash analysis of a fictional world from media like Wheel of Time, or Pandora from Avatar. Or I build a new fictional world from scratch with a guest with an intention from that guest like, I want a world where all of the beings look incredibly diverse, or I want a world that doesn't rely on fossil fuels and doesn't have a history of colonialism. So if you want more Dr. Moyer in your life, subscribe to xo lore wherever you listen to podcasts, dive into the catalogue of more than 60 episodes or look forward to a new XLR every other Thursday. Listening to Pale Blue Pod is a great way to learn about astronomy concepts. But it's no secret that we're not here to make you better at math. If that's the type of thing you're after. I'd like to recommend Brilliant. Brilliant is a program online and in app form for lifelong learners that replaces lecture videos. With hands on interactive lessons, you can learn about the complementary angles in a triangle by actually stretching out a triangle on your screen to see the angles change in real time. And you can learn about the center of mass and physics by trying to balance a weighted beam on your digital finger. Those are just a couple of examples. Brilliant has 1000s of lessons in math, scientific thinking and even computer algorithms, and they add new ones every single month. I think that the world really needs more people who can use knowledge and logic to reason through problems. And Brilliant is the best way to practice those skills online interactively. To get started for free, visit brilliant[dot]org/palebluepod or click on the link in the description. The first 200 of you will get 20% off Brilliant's annual premium subscription. Again, you can join Brilliant for free at brilliant[dot]org/palebluepod or the link in the description. And come on have a good time getting smarter. So eclipses are cool. I think we've established Yes, absolutely. They're interesting. They're surprising. We know which of the eclipses is better for democracy.
Corinne Caputo 33:49
We know which Eclipse to vote for. Oh, we absolutely do.
Moiya McTier 33:52
2024 Vote for the vote for the Lunar Eclipse somehow I
Corinne Caputo 33:56
want to vote for a solar eclipse despite this because it is to me free gear. Correct. I always pick my candidate based on freak level. Oh, okay guys, I vote very left.
Moiya McTier 34:11
I mean, left people can be freaky to is it depends on what you mean, do you have that figured out. But we aren't just talking about eclipses are interested in eclipses because they're cool. They can also help us with very important science. Throughout history. Humans have learned stuff about the universe and our planet by observing eclipses both solar and lunar. So the first one is actually something that I think I think everyone should should know about this. So humans knew for 1000s of years that the Earth was spherical like if you think that ancient humans thought the Earth was flat, like most of them did not. We've known for a long time that the earth was round, so flat earthers get fucked. But lunar eclipses do offer up a convenient way to prove that the earth is spherical. And in the fifth century BCE, that's Before Common Era, to Greek philosophers named and pedigrees and a Naxa. Goris. God,
Corinne Caputo 35:15
we were good at names. We were so much.
Moiya McTier 35:19
I want to see a story about and pedigrees and Anaxagoras just going on adventures having deep philosophical conversations, and like probably having some really great gay sex. Like, that's all. That's what I want. Yeah,
Corinne Caputo 35:29
I was gonna say they're probably great at pranks for some reason. Hmm,
Moiya McTier 35:32
I just get that energy. That's cannon now. That scan
Corinne Caputo 35:36
it, I'm putting that on our Wikipedia pages. Good. Good. Good, because it was said on this podcast so it can be cited.
Moiya McTier 35:42
Oh, my God, that's terrifying, or allegedly good pranks. They were canonically good at pranks. I'm gonna I'm gonna raise that level. So these these pranksters and pedigrees and Anaxagoras observed a total lunar eclipse, and noted that the shadow from the earth cast onto the moon wasn't a flat line to thunk. And so they were like, Oh, well, the earth must be round. So if you have like, flat earth or acquaintances, you can wait for the next total lunar eclipse, which you will, like there's a 50% chance you'll be able to see it. And just point at the moon and be like, Look, that's a round shadow. It's all the proof you need. I think over the course of this show, we will demonstrate how you can prove the Earth's roundness many, many times
Corinne Caputo 36:31
I love that I don't think I know a flat earther directly or someone who's out as a flat earther. But in seventh grade, my teacher one day showed us a video about how the moon landing was faked. No, that is that was that day science class. And guess what she was always on the phone in class, like there was the internal phone system between the classrooms. Someone was always calling her. So I was taking a tally in the back of my notebook because I was like that kind of kid. And I told the whole class that I had been doing this and we were approaching the number 200. Oh, she's about to be out her 200th call. And yeah, when the 200 call came, we all got up and yelled 200. And it was extremely funny. That's
Moiya McTier 37:17
only 200 calls during your class. Yes, exactly.
Corinne Caputo 37:21
It was like a 45 minute period. And what are these? I got 180 days of school year or whatever. Yeah. Wow. And then she showed me that video about the moon landing that you take and guess what? I was like, wow, the moon landing was faked.
Moiya McTier 37:33
I am so so sorry. Just seventh grade, Corinne. I'm floored right now I am. I'm bamboozled. I'm flummoxed.
Corinne Caputo 37:43
As if I don't have enough to deal with. I was in middle school. There's a lot going on.
Moiya McTier 37:51
Trying to deal with your body changing and you have a teacher telling you that the moon landing was fake.
Corinne Caputo 37:55
Exactly. My body's changing. My friends are changing. I'm feeling weird. And now everything I believe has been a lie.
Moiya McTier 38:04
I hate that. I hate that so much. We should do an episode about the moon landing and send it to her. I know we got to this podcast is all about pettiness, pettiness and education. Okay, so that was that was finding number one. This is not in any sort of chronological order. You may think that it is because I started with Ancient Greece. But don't worry, the rest of the doubt around a logical order. So in 2011, NASA took advantage of a total lunar eclipse and measured how quickly the moon's surface temperature dropped as it passed into the Earth's shadow. They did they were able to do that because they already had something on the moon to measure the surface temperature because the moon landing was not wasn't fake. So they were able to measure the temperature on the surface of the moon. And this lets scientists better understand the moon's composition because different materials will cool down at different rates. That's so cool. Very close. The things we can do with science when we when we don't don't think our land Yeah, when we really go to space. I'm gonna keep harping on that because it's just unbelievable. Oh my god, all
Corinne Caputo 39:14
I remember about the like evidence video, which she played. Was that the they were like, well, why isn't the American flag waving? And even then it was kind of like, why the fuck would it be waving?
Moiya McTier 39:29
The fact that they make these these big conclusions based on the faulty list of assumptions? Yeah. Oh
Corinne Caputo 39:34
my god, it's really wild.
Moiya McTier 39:36
It never ceases to amaze me, or disgust me and
Corinne Caputo 39:39
impress me. Very creative. I clap in the background. Wow, very creative.
Moiya McTier 39:46
Okay, so this is the part where I am going to talk a bit more about the corona of the sun. So total solar eclipses made it possible to start like well first notice the corona because we couldn't see it without Something covering the face of the sun. And then the eclipses let us study the corona. So the corona is the outermost layer of the sun's atmosphere. It's very hot, like one of the hottest parts of the sun that we've measured. And we still don't really know why. Which I think is nice, because I love that there are still mysteries for us to say, yeah, in space, I
Corinne Caputo 40:23
can't keep secrets or surprises, and I need to know everything all the time. So this is definitely irritating in that way of like, What do you mean? We don't know.
Moiya McTier 40:31
I agree. I agree. Both both can be true. It's awesome. And irritating at the same time. So the the corona is very hot, it stretches for 1000s of miles away from the surface of the sun. And it's very dim compared to the rest of the sun. Because it's not like a dense collection of gas and plasma, it's just little, little wispies
Corinne Caputo 40:55
like frizzy hair. Yeah.
Moiya McTier 40:59
Before, if we didn't have total solar eclipses, we wouldn't have had a natural way to block out the light from the body of the sun. Now, in modern times, we have instruments that can do that. For us, we call them coronagraphs. And it's essentially like if you're looking through a telescope, like the janky, but realistic version of this is if you take like a like a, I don't know a button or like a piece of felt some some like solid circular thing and you just put it on on the part of your telescope that looks at the sun. Like you just put it on there. And I'm like, Oh, that's really cool. And then you can study the corona. It's like forcing yourself to see and Eclipse that
Corinne Caputo 41:38
is such a simple fix. I don't know why that's so funny for such a practical fix to a scientific concept, but it really is funny.
Moiya McTier 41:46
I know. It's like, it's almost as if they just like solved it with duct tape. You could Yeah, would make a Caronia out of duct tape.
Corinne Caputo 41:53
Okay, when you google coronagraph, it changes it to Coronavirus graph. So we have to reclaim the word for now. We're just talking about the fun parts of a sun's corona.
Moiya McTier 42:06
Are you doing it as two different words
Corinne Caputo 42:08
though? Yeah, but I'll make it one. Yeah,
Moiya McTier 42:10
make it one. It's a Corona
Corinne Caputo 42:12
Corona graph, of course, like phonograph course that Oh, wow. That's cool. These pictures
Moiya McTier 42:19
and they can they can look very fancy. They can be very complicated. Or they can just be like a circle of duct tape that you put on your telescope. Yeah, that's for the people. And notice the sun the sun probably does not want to be blocked. So the sun I'm sure is like anti coronagraph, this is
Corinne Caputo 42:36
how we're gonna get back at the Sun everybody.
Moiya McTier 42:41
Everyone, please, bye bye people coronagraphs for
Corinne Caputo 42:44
buy a telescope and then put
Moiya McTier 42:51
in it, we'll see where we're jumping all around. In 1868, a French astronomer named Pierre Jansen. Yep,
Corinne Caputo 43:03
I'm sure that's exactly right. Pierre
Moiya McTier 43:05
Janssen observed a total solar eclipse from India with a spectrograph. A spectrograph is an instrument that can take light and then split it up into different wavelengths. Like like a prism. Yes, I've seen this. Yeah. So with a spectrograph, you can look at a source of light and see essentially, what elements are in the thing that produced that light. So this French astronomer, Pierre Jansen, you use the spectrograph to look at the eclipsing sun, and noticed a new line that had never been seen before this bright yellow line. And it turned out that he discovered helium, the second most abundant element in the universe, discovered it in the sun. And so they named it after Helios, the Greek titan of the sun. Cool. And now we know about helium, thanks to eclipses.
Corinne Caputo 43:58
I love that. I went to a party city recently back for like Halloween stuff, and they were out of helium. And it was a big deal.
Moiya McTier 44:07
We are having a helium shortage on earth because it might be the second most abundant element in the universe, but it is not the second most abundant element here on Earth. I'm learning that now. Sorry, to the balloons, so many birthday parties going on uncelebrated in the way they used to be? Yeah, the shortage of helium. One last thing for astronomy, is that total solar eclipses were used to confirm Einstein's theory of general relativity, which explains how gravity and space time work together. You know, like if you have a very massive object, it is going to have a large gravitational pool or gravitational field, and it can actually bend time and space around it. That's what the general relativity tells us. And that was confirmed. It's been confirmed many, many times. But one way that they confirmed it was by observing a solar eclipse and seeing how distant star light got bent around the mass of the Sun towards us. So because most of the sun's light was covered with this natural coronagraph, we were able to see more dim light from distant stars behind the sun that were bending towards us. That's really cool. Yeah. And it's not just astronomy, when we study eclipses. It's not just the astrophysicist who benefit ecologists and biologists can use eclipses to study how animals and plants respond to unexpected changes in their environment. Yes,
Corinne Caputo 45:34
this is what I was wondering before we are talking about, like how people reacted to eclipses back in the day. I'm so curious, like how animals react. Yeah,
Moiya McTier 45:43
yeah, they do. Because to them, it's like, oh, it's night now.
Corinne Caputo 45:48
Wait a second. Yeah.
Moiya McTier 45:49
So especially biologists who study circadian rhythms you know, these these patterns that occur roughly on a day long cycle cerca de in about a day, they can look to see how these animals react to a sudden shift from day to night. animals get tricked into thinking it's a different time of the day than it actually is. So a spider who usually takes apart its web at the end of the day might start doing that during a total solar eclipse, for example. And when I was in Nashville for the total solar eclipse when it happened, for those like three or four minutes of totality, all of the bugs because I was in a in a park, all of the bugs got really loud. Dusk. Yeah, it was like, I'm gonna use one of my favorite words in the English language. All of the corpuscular animals came out. Oh,
Corinne Caputo 46:42
I don't know that word. Thank
Moiya McTier 46:45
you. So there's nocturnal people who are awake at night. There's diurnal people or animals who are awake during the day. And then there's crepuscular, the people or animals who are most active during twilight. I
Corinne Caputo 46:58
love that happy to bring up Twilight again. That's what the saga should have been called the corpuscular saga.
Moiya McTier 47:08
No one would have bought those books except for me.
Corinne Caputo 47:12
And the werewolf should have been called Jeffrey.
Moiya McTier 47:17
Vampires should not have sparkled. Unless they
Corinne Caputo 47:19
were going to drop the skincare routine in the comments. Then it would have been fine. Unless
Moiya McTier 47:24
you're telling us how often they literally bathe in glitter. I don't want them to sparkle. Yeah.
Corinne Caputo 47:29
And there's a glitter shortage too right now. Helium and glitter. We'll have to tackle that another
Moiya McTier 47:33
time. All of the party favors.
Corinne Caputo 47:35
I know Christmas is about to be ruined. Oh my kids. balloons were a big part of it. So was glitter.
Moiya McTier 47:41
Mentioned Imagine all the people whose birthday is on Christmas. Ah, Jesus, Jesus. He was born in March. Yeah, it's true. Yeah. Um, so that's, that's all I have about eclipses. I
Corinne Caputo 47:57
love it. I can't wait to see one now. I'm like, maybe I gotta go to Buffalo. Let's go to Buffalo. That would be really fun.
Moiya McTier 48:04
We can meet Yeah, down. I'll go up. Okay, I'll
Corinne Caputo 48:07
meet you in Buffalo.
Moiya McTier 48:09
24 Yeah.
Corinne Caputo 48:11
Okay, I have a fun game now. Okay, I have a little game of would you rather and it's Eclipse themed. And I think you're gonna like where we go with this. I'm so excited. Okay, first question is Would you rather be Eclipse or Eclipse someone else?
Moiya McTier 48:27
Oh, no one should get in the way of my shine. I would much rather someone else Eclipse
Corinne Caputo 48:33
someone else. And you could be the moon here. So it could be like your for the people. I'm
Moiya McTier 48:38
for the people. Yes. Final answer. I'd rather Eclipse someone else.
Corinne Caputo 48:43
I for some reason. I'm leaning towards be Eclipse because in my head. I'm being eclipsed by something important.
Moiya McTier 48:51
Oh, okay. But that's conditional, though. It is
Corinne Caputo 48:54
completely conditional. And I might pull out last second and say no,
Moiya McTier 48:58
that's always an option. You know, you, Corinne, you're not the sun, you can just choose to like, take a step to the left. You're
Corinne Caputo 49:05
so right. Oh my god. That's all the sun should? Why are they just getting off track? Um, okay, next question. Would you rather experience a total eclipse of the sun or a Total Eclipse of the Heart? And I have no idea what that is.
Moiya McTier 49:22
That's very easy. That's very easy. Um, as someone who has seen a total solar eclipse loved it and would love to see it again. And also somebody who just got dumped by her fiance. No hard stuff for a while. Yeah.
Corinne Caputo 49:39
In the dark. No, thanks. I'm good. Yeah, this one. This one is I think is going to be a little challenging. Would you rather stare directly at an eclipse or watch The Twilight Saga Eclipse once a day for a year? Oh,
Moiya McTier 50:00
Oh my god. Oh my god
Corinne Caputo 50:03
a hard one. This is a hard one. Although I'm realizing now I didn't differentiate between a solar eclipse or a lunar eclipse. Oh,
Moiya McTier 50:10
that's true. Yeah. Well, okay. So following fairy rules where the warning is very important, and yeah, I would rather look at a lunar eclipse. Yeah, I think you're totally right. But if you had specified solar eclipse, I think, because I like my eyes. Yeah. Oh, but I also like my sanity. Yeah, I guess I guess I would watch The Twilight Saga. And you know what, I would watch it in like a different language every day.
Corinne Caputo 50:38
So and it could be like, just like ambient noise in the background while you work or something. Yeah, yeah.
Moiya McTier 50:45
And then I don't have to pay attention to it. But every once in a while when Taylor Lautner is on the screen, I will look at that. Yeah. Oh, and Kristen Stewart now, but Oh, yes, Christie
Corinne Caputo 50:56
right now, but not Kristen Stewart, then I totally agree with you. If it helps, this movie has a 47% on Rotten Tomatoes,
Moiya McTier 51:03
which is not the worst it could be. It's honestly higher than I thought it would be
Corinne Caputo 51:07
it is higher, and that's probably because of the fans. What's the runtime on this movie? Is that going to affect your answer? No, it won't. Okay, because it's two hours in four minutes.
Moiya McTier 51:19
Oh, no, no, no, no, no, I wake up every day I turn on Twilight. And I do my chores. I mean, Cosmos litterbox I forced myself to eat breakfast like I can do that.
Corinne Caputo 51:31
Which do you think you'd have it memorized by the end of the air?
Moiya McTier 51:35
Yeah, I think if I if like if I was watching it in like Korea, I would have it memorized.
Corinne Caputo 51:44
Okay, I'll make sure I'll send you a copy of that movie right after
Moiya McTier 51:48
that. Thank you so much. I have a question. Would you rather never, ever see a total solar eclipse? or live in the town where the totality passed through? Ooh, let's say like it always pass through, you know, because you have to deal with all those tourists. Oh,
Corinne Caputo 52:13
like I always okay, so this is a town where it would always happen. Yeah. And
Moiya McTier 52:18
then you get to see every total solar eclipse but you also have to deal with the
Corinne Caputo 52:21
with blood or forest. Yeah. But then I could never but the other option is to never see one. Never. I think I would want to deal with the tourists. I'm imagining my life in this scenario. I probably run an adorable gift shop and I sell little Eclipse items that I can craft all year. I could have a really quaint little life. Oh,
Moiya McTier 52:45
I would love that for you. And you can charge so much. Yeah, during Eclipse tourist season wheeze I stayed in the most disgusting motel in Nashville. Just like it's worse. I walked into that place and I was like someone has been murdered here. Oh, yeah. And I paid like $300 a night for that hotel.
Corinne Caputo 53:07
Yeah, I'm making a lot of money in a story. And that's very important to me.
Moiya McTier 53:15
Eventually, you'll get so rich that people will eat you instead of the sun.
Corinne Caputo 53:20
That's a good way to go. I deserve to go if I'm if I become wealthy.
Moiya McTier 53:26
Cool. Well, I think that's it. Yeah,
Corinne Caputo 53:29
I'll see you in Buffalo. Yeah,
Moiya McTier 53:32
2024 April will it's a date, the date. So as you listeners are thinking about eclipses whether or not you would want to be Eclipse or Eclipse someone else. There's just one thing that we really want you to remember. Remember that you are space.
Pale Blue Pod was created by Moiya McTier and Corrine Caputo with help from the Multitude Productions team. Our theme music is by Evan Johnston and our cover art is by Shea McMullin. Our audio editing is handled by the incomparable Mischa Stanton.
Corinne Caputo 54:14
Stay in touch with us and the universe by following @PaleBluePod on Twitter and Instagram. Or check out our website palebluepod[dot]com. We're a member of Multitude, an independent podcast collective and production studio. If you like Pale Blue Pod you will love the other shows that live on our website at multitude[dot]productions.
Moiya McTier 54:32
If you want to support Pale Blue Pod financially, join our community over at patreon[dot]com/palebluepod. For just about $1 per episode, you get a shout out on one of our shows and access to director's commentary for each episode. The very best way though to help Pale Blue Pod grow is to share it with your friends. So send this episode, this link, to one person who you think will like it and we will appreciate you for forever.
Corinne Caputo 54:58
Thanks for listening to Pale Blue Pod! You'll hear us again next week. Bye!